Proof the Christian God is Evil

You know those ridiculously sensationalist headlines that promise the world and don’t deliver? Post titles that make a claim, but end it in question marks so as to deny all liability?

This isn’t one of those posts.

Proving God is Evil

First we have to define our terms.

Definitions

God

The triune god-head of mainline Christianity including Catholicism and most or all Protestant religions, consisting of Jesus (who is God), God the Father, and the Holy Spirit (who is also God). This God is revealed in the Bible to be un-changing. See: Numbers 23:19; 1 Samuel 15:29; Psalms 102:26; Malachi 3:6; 2 Timothy 2:13; Hebrews 6:17,18; and James 1:17. For example:

Malachi 3:6 – “For I am the Lord, I change not; therefore ye sons of Jacob are not consumed.”

God, in one manner or another, created the entire Universe, as implied by Genesis 1 (or described by it, if you take it literally).

God does not ever lie.

Numbers 23:19 – “God is not a man, that He should lie, nor a son of man, that He should repent.”

This God is also all-powerful or omnipotent. The most cited verse is Matthew 19:26: “With God all things are possible.” We concede that logical impossibilities are not possible for God (e.g. making a rock so big he cannot move it), though since God created everything, including logic, that’s a debate for another day.

Lastly, God is all-knowing or omniscient. This is proclaimed in Deuteronomy 29:29 and elsewhere. We take this to mean he knows the past, present, and future, and furthermore knows the results of all his decisions before he makes them. (We ignore the likely truth that someone can not be both omniscient and omnipotent because they would not be able to change their future mind.)

The Bible

The collection of writings Christians call the Bible. King James, NIV, Catholic? doesn’t really matter for our purposes. We shall take it mostly literally, except for parables and much of Genesis; this is what most Christian religions do. We also assume this is God’s primary or only means of reliable communication with humankind (ignoring forgeries and legitimate Bible scholars, not to mention intra-Biblical contradictions).

I am teasing you with definitions before the proof. But a definition of terms is important. The next one is perhaps more interesting, so bear with me.

Good

Doing unto another as one would have the other do to them. This, the “Golden Rule,” is widely held as Jesus’ most important teaching. It can be found in Matthew 7:12 and Luke 6:31.

Evil

Knowingly doing the opposite of good.

Sin

Evil acts.

Humankind

Sinners. Taken as a the most basic tenet of Christianity, Jesus’ supposed sacrifice makes no sense otherwise.

You can’t wait, can you? On to the good stuff.

Proof, version 1

  1. God created everything (given).

  2. God created humankind (by 1).

  3. Humankind is composed of sinners (given).

  4. Sinners create evil (given).

  5. Humankind creates evil (by 3 and 4).

  6. God created evil (by 2 and 5).

  7. God knew the consequences of creating everything, including humans, before he did it (given).

  8. God knew he was creating evil (by 5 and 6).

  9. Thus, God sinned, himself, by definition, as a sinner knowingly commits evil acts.

I dare you to find a hole in that logic, given those definitions.

You want more? Okay. But let’s define another term or two.

More Definitions

Free Will

The ability to choose between two or more options. This does NOT mean omnipotence.

Conscious Beings

Entities that have at least the illusion of free will. This includes humans.

Proof (version 2)

  1. If I were to create a universe and conscious beings, I would create a universe where they cannot hurt each other.

  2. In fact, I wish all humans had free will but could not hurt each other.

  3. It is not logically impossible for conscious beings to have free will without being able to hurt each other. Proof by contradiction / counter-example:

    • Assume free will requires the ability to hurt other conscious beings.
    • Universe X is populated by beings whose only choice is to appear green or purple to observers. This does not inhibit others’ choices or harm them.
    • (Implied: Universe X denizens have no language, as communication involves choice of a message.)
    • Universe X denizens have free will, because they can make a choice; omnipotence is neither required nor granted.
    • This is a counter-example to our initial assumption.
    • Thus, free will does not require the ability to hurt other beings.
  4. God did not do unto me as I would have done to another conscious being.

  5. God defined evil through the Bible (from given).

  6. God did evil according to his own definition.

  7. Thus, God is evil.

I like this second proof a lot, though it did require a sub-proof. I double-dare you to poke a hole in this one, too!

Well, that was easy.

I hope you enjoyed these proofs as much as I did. For more, see this eloquent rebuttal of an apologist (which the apologist attempts to rebut, but has nothing solid to contribute); it illustrates how an omniscient God is necessarily evil. That “problem” is called theodicy. You may also be interested in this wonderful article on God’s immutability.

What’s that? The soft sound of Christian readers not being swayed? “Well, this post must be wrong, because of course God can’t be evil. He is benevolent!” they think. Yet they ignore the alternative: that He does not exist at all.

Much love,

Mr. Atheist

15 thoughts on “Proof the Christian God is Evil

  1. Pingback: Can Christian Faith Ever be Rational? – We Goats

  2. Denise

    There’s holes in proof one. I’ll give you 1 and 2. If you’ve read the bible though, you’d see that man was created in God’s image. Sin entered the earth through Lucifer who fell from heaven. So 3, humankind is composed of sinners, but this is after the fall of man. After the fall of man, all of mankind after that is born evil. Since conception can only happen with the man’s sperm, that is how all mankind, with the exception of one man, is born evil. The reason Jesus is born evil is because Mary was impregnated by the Holy Spirit, aka God. 4 also has a hole in it because man does not have the ability to create. Creation by definition is to make something out of nothing. Only God has been able to do this. 6 is negated in previous statement about Lucifer. God did know what would happen when he created everything, but that is where free will steps in. 8 is again negated by previous statements. 9 is also negate having already stated where sin came from.

    Proof two. 1. The bible says that God’s ways our higher than ours. The very statement of “if I were to” which can be translated to “if I were God” is already bound to foolish because we could never understand His ways. 2. To allow people to do what they want “but” something is not free will. By not allowing them to be able to do things removes the choice for the them to choose it. And if free will is, according to the definition you provided, the ability to choose between two or more options, the ability to make the wrong choice needs to be in there. 3. again that they can do all things but one thing negates free will. Free will doesn’t require the ability to hurt others, but it does require that you can choose whether or not you will hurt others. Not sure where omnipotence plays into the whole argument of free will because they are not the same thing. God never said that He would give omnipotence to all mankind. He gave us free will. 4. To equate yourself with God is, again, foolishness. God is not on the same level as us. We are not God’s equals. 5. Yes, God does define evil throughout the Bible. 6. I would like your Bible references for when God does evil. 7. All the previous arguments have been addressed so this last statement is void.

  3. Lee

    Denise, your god apparently created everything, this, means he created the devil and created “free will;” and if he created everything, then he even created “evil.” And your “all knowing” god even knew beforehand what was going to happen due to all these creations; so, he is evil to set up such human suffering due to the evil he created. Also, why did he create such a confusing book to follow, the bible, it’s more complicated than all the income tax laws. I say it’s complicated because all of the denominational conflicts. I guess your god enjoys seeing fallible human beings struggle, and even terrorize each other in the name of god.

  4. soulrebel

    Proof that God was and is evil he sent the devil to live among humans! Where was God when the devil was tricking humanity? God discraced humanity and fucked humanity from day the time he supposedly sent the devil here. Think about it. He hated the devil and knew the devil was evil and let the evil devil live among humans. Ask yourself would you let a snake crawl in your child’s crib and then punish your kid?

  5. Nicholas West

    Hi I’m doing a report on Christianity for my Public Speaking class, and my main point is that it is mis-represented. Your website is a shining example of how even our logic PROVES its truth. First off, the triune thing. 80 PERCENT of Christians accept the Trinity as fact, when, in fact, it is nowhere in the Bible. Here’s some logic– 1+1+1 cannot equal one. LOL. Here’s some verses to back that up (read them, i took the time to read your every word) —- Deuteronomy 6:4 Romans 9:5 Ephesians 4:4-6 Colossians 2:9 The Trinity makes no sense. YET MOST. MOST. MOST “Christians” don’t even question it. SO. There goes 80% of them. The other 20 or so think that they can just keep on sinning and this “Jesus” that they’ve INVENTED in their mind will simply forgive them every time. It’s all about comfort. About BEING comforted, instead of actual truth. The Bible DOES NOT NEED TO BE FALSE, BECAUSE NOONE CLAIMING TO BE A CHRISTIAN ACTUALLY DOES WHAT IT SAYS. Grace, faith, backed up by action. No ridiculous Trinity’s or Billy Grahams that are popular and accepted. This “Satan” character has done nothing more…..than a marvelous job…. BY THE WAY. I’m not saved. I KNOW THAT. Because I know what that book says and the EXTENT one must be transformed. I’m THE ONLY PERSON OF EARTH with inconvenient beliefs.

  6. Open your eyes

    The God of all religion is a sadistic, narcissistic and cowardice fool of them all. I have seen better behavior from animals that are supposedly savages. I will never let my children suffer, yet he rubs his hands and belly laughs at our suffering. How can this being even be called a God, if he is a God then we are much better than God. This whole satan being banished sounds a lot like the God of all religions he created this shit heap we call life. He trapped us in his prison of our bodies, indoctrinated us while we were young so that we are truly trapped within his evil clutches. Pain & suffering is the order of the day, when things are going well for you, you can just feel his cold hands pulling down your pants & getting ready to fuck you. He is a coward, he will never show his face anywhere because he knows that we will take him out. He doesn’t deserve life, he is the most despicable creature ever created. He is a virus that is killing us all. It’s because of him & his cronies, the religions of the world, that we hate each other. People perform cowardice acts of terrorism in his name to reflect the coward he is. He is weak & he uses words of fear to keep you at bay.

    When you sense his dumbass popping up in your life tell him to fuck off, we do not require a charlatan to guide us through our journey. I’m not afraid of him, what can he do? Fuck all!! You can have all the power & all the knowledge in the universe but if you act like a cunt, you are a cunt. Simple as that. I don’t believe in tooth fairies & Santa, so why the fuck should I believe in a fantasy heaven & hell. It’s just ridiculous. I am alone, nobody is out there working in my corner… I sure know that there is a prick called God in the other corner doing his best to make me suffer.

    Why are there kids born with no food? What kind of sick fuck he must be to get kicks from seeing people in pain. I am a supposed sinner, yet my morals are purer that his.

    Open your eyes & don’t regurgitate stuff you have read or heard. Humans & animals are better natured beings than this God.

  7. Mr. Atheist Post author

    “About being comforted, instead of actual truth.” — You are probably on to something, here. Note how many people “find religion” during a time of crisis, for example, or how they actually refuse to discuss or debate theology, for fear of being wrong. Faith is the opposite of science.

    “I’m the only person [on] Earth with inconvenient beliefs.” — Not true. However, it is sad, amusing, and remarkable how many people are convinced that they are in a tiny minority of believers in having figured out the truth about religion. (Hint: Chances are, you are wrong, too.)

  8. NaiseiTatsu

    Just wanted to point out a few facts about Lucifer. Lucifer is not the devil, or the snake. Lucifer is a character from Paradise Lost. The Lucifer that is mentioned ONCE in the bible is a human king, not the Devil. The snake in Eden, according to pre-christian texts is named Gadrael. Also, on a side note, Satan isn’t cast out of heaven until around the middle of Revelations. Look it up.

  9. Mr. Atheist Post author

    @NaiseiTatsu I’m leaving your comment up although I see little value in it. Most Christians disagree with you, which is why I started from the assumptions I listed above. You still haven’t dealt with the core problem here, which is known as theodicy.

  10. NaiseiTatsu

    Sorry my last comment was directed toward the first one made by Denise. As to the matter of theodicy, I have no comment, really. It seems like a moot point to me, as I do not believe in the existence of gods. Good and evil are mostly a matter of perspective. What is in accord with the peaceful coexistence of our people is considered good. Whatever disrupts that peace is considered evil. That’s perhaps overly simplified, but it is pretty much the jist of it. Evil happens when n individual, or group, acts with no regard for the welfare of those that their actions may affect, thus disrupting the social structure that we, as a species depend on. This takes place on both the micro and macro scale. The concept of good and evil came into being when humanity discovered the need for social structure. Creatures that have no such social structure have no such notions.

  11. Calvin

    Nope.. the christian God cannot be evil.. because that God doesn’t exist.. How Proof Version 1 is broken.. There is no good, no evil.. good and evil is human created.. we create good based on what we like, we create evil based on what we don’t like.. good/evil is just duality, opposite of a single position.. like left/right, positive/negative, black/white.. Sinners are just people who choose the ‘evil’ side of a position.. Sinner don’t create evil..we can’t literally create a choice to a decision, the choice was there to begin with..we pick a choice, not create a choice.. Point 4&5 thus doesn’t exist Point 6,7,8 is partially correct, God did create evil.. remember the bible tree of Good/Evil, it was existence in the Garden of Eden.. who created that, not Adam/Eve… God created both Good/Evil.. But God didn’t sin, because making a choice to a decision cannot be considered a sin, it’s just a choice.. When one defines sin, one is referring to that the decision is a mistake.. but a mistake is again self-defined.. why is a bad choice considered ‘bad’.. if a decision is made based on what we could decipher, then why is it a bad choice, then to really pick a choice that we couldn’t decipher?? Then it wouldn’t be a choice, because we are ignorant of the outcome that the other choice could have been better.. so there was no way that we would have picked the other choice.. If we know the outcome very well, we would make the ‘right’ choice. God knows the outcome, so he did not make a mistake.. thus he has no sin.. Proof version 1 is broken.. Thing is, the bible was written by man, and no matter how many christians say those men were annointed by the Holy Spirit, the Holy Spirit cannot possess people, only demons do that.. So, unless we are possessed, we only write what we can understand, NOT what we cannot.. Men who wrote the bible only wrote what they can understand.. they think good/evil exist, so they write based on understanding of that.. so they write things based on sin.. similar that they understood the earth was flat and an ark can house all the species of this earth etc etc.. Christianity is a religion based on these human understanding.. that’s why I say, christian God doesn’t exist.. I didn’t say God doesn’t exist.. just Christian God (a ‘God’ created by christians who form a religion called christianity)

    Now to break Proof Version 2.. Point 1 is broken.. if I were to create a universe, I won’t create a universe that people won’t hurt each other..WHY.. simple.. if humans are eternal, the hurting accounts to nothing.. it’s improvement that you are looking for.. not a ‘happy playground’.. We are learn by conflicting decisions.. we don’t learn if all the answers were provided in a piece of paper handed down to us.. WIth Point 1 broken, the whole Proof Version 2 is broken..

  12. Tanner

    If one in attempting to apply rational thought to the bible and begin by accepting it as the true word of god then the only logical conclusion is YES GOD IS EVIL. After all god murdered his only son the same way that Abraham was willing to murder his son as a blood sacrifice. The difference being of course that god murdererd his own son for no reason. Since the “sacrifice” was required by god to prevent god from damning all humans. Damning all humans was a decision that god made. He could decide not to do so without murdering his own son. The bible is a ridiculous collection of conflicting, superstitious garbage. It has little true value. For every virtue it teaches it also teaches horrible things such as bigotry, hatred and warfare. IMAGINE NO RELIGION. Maybe some day we will eliminate religion from our culture and people will begin to exercise just a little of the “free will” that they claim we all have. I see no evidence of “free will” among christians. Christianity was created by Roman elite citizens in order to manipulate the public. Look it up. If Jesus existed why is there no book of Jesus? Was he illiterate? Are we to believe that the son of god who so brilliantly challenged the Pharisees was illiterate? Wow I’m impressed, a miracle working god incarnate who can rise from the dead and yet can not wield a pen. LOL

  13. Wide awake

    So Lucifer was allowed enough power to subvert God’s plan while plunging untold millions into eternal damnation? It sounds like a faulty God to me. This God allows free will in hopes that his creatures will choose to love him. If they do evil instead, God will simply condemn his creation that is imperfect by its very design.

    Some God that is.

  14. Paul

    Naturally, God is evil, proved it many times throughout that Bible. The Old Testament God, acts more like an insane entity, whom is the opposite of acting righteous most of the time.

    Like that worldwide flood jazz (children’s favorite bedtime story of a mass genocide carried out by a serial killer of a god) where this same good guy god shows himself to be such a pathetic incompetent loser, can’t seem to eradicate wicked mankind without destroying all innocent animal life too! Your telling me this Almighty God, creator of the universe was incapable of vaporizing all the evil humans on planet Earth? Thus, leaving the innocent animals behind including Noah and his family too? No, that flood was a pure evil act my this saddest of a god whom is without question the biggest underachiever ever.

    Now I don’t know about the rest of you but, I don’t have the heart to drown a freaking field mouse not, alone all the animals on this earth. Besides we know it’s impossible for animals to sin. This fact, making them completely innocent unwilling victims of this madman’s temper tantrums…

    I can’t read the Old or New testaments without feeling quite nauseous. stories of inhuman misery, slavish obedience, betrayal, mass murder, genocides beheadings, sex crazed rulers, even children sacrificed by pagan religions that actually influences the creator to do that same exact thing on several occasions.

    This makes god out to be less then an all knowing being, more like, pathetically weak and unsure of himself and what he and he alone creates…

    End!

  15. Guroman

    God likes burning animals and he created hell of fire to smell burning flesh. Your right he’s evil he goes to hell to smell their burning flesh

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